1. Morality and Authority

The Socratic Method of Philosophical Inquiry

1.  Read Plato’s dialogue “Euthyphro” at http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/euthyfro.html.

2.  Define the term “morality” by answering Euthyphro’s dilemma.

If you were Euthyphro, how would you have responded when Socrates inquired:

“Is an action morally good because God commands it,
or does God command it because it is morally good?”

3. Read Euthyphro’s Dilemma at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_Dilemma

4. Read Divine Command Theory at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_command_theory.

“EUTHYPHRO”

by Plato

Written 380 B.C.E

Translated by Benjamin Jowett

Persons of the Dialogue
Socrates
Euthyphro

Scene
The Porch of the King Archon.

Euthyphro. Why have you left the Lyceum, Socrates? and what are you doing in the Porch of the King Archon? Surely you cannot be concerned in a suit before the King, like myself?

Socrates. Not in a suit, Euthyphro; impeachment is the word which the Athenians use.

Euth. What! I suppose that some one has been prosecuting you, for I cannot believe that you are the prosecutor of another.

Soc. Certainly not.

Euth. Then some one else has been prosecuting you?

Soc. Yes.

Euth. And who is he?

Soc. A young man who is little known, Euthyphro; and I hardly know him: his name is Meletus, and he is of the deme of Pitthis. Perhaps you may remember his appearance; he has a beak, and long straight hair, and a beard which is ill grown.

Euth. No, I do not remember him, Socrates. But what is the charge which he brings against you?

Soc. What is the charge? Well, a very serious charge, which shows a good deal of character in the young man, and for which he is certainly not to be despised. He says he knows how the youth are corrupted and who are their corruptors. I fancy that he must be a wise man, and seeing that I am the reverse of a wise man, he has found me out, and is going to accuse me of corrupting his young friends. And of this our mother the state is to be the judge. Of all our political men he is the only one who seems to me to begin in the right way, with the cultivation of virtue in youth; like a good husbandman, he makes the young shoots his first care, and clears away us who are the destroyers of them. This is only the first step; he will afterwards attend to the elder branches; and if he goes on as he has begun, he will be a very great public benefactor.

Euth. I hope that he may; but I rather fear, Socrates, that the opposite will turn out to be the truth. My opinion is that in attacking you he is simply aiming a blow at the foundation of the state. But in what way does he say that you corrupt the young?

Soc. He brings a wonderful accusation against me, which at first hearing excites surprise: he says that I am a poet or maker of gods, and that I invent new gods and deny the existence of old ones; this is the ground of his indictment.

Euth. I understand, Socrates; he means to attack you about the familiar sign which occasionally, as you say, comes to you. He thinks that you are a neologian, and he is going to have you up before the court for this. He knows that such a charge is readily received by the world, as I myself know too well; for when I speak in the assembly about divine things, and foretell the future to them, they laugh at me and think me a madman. Yet every word that I say is true. But they are jealous of us all; and we must be brave and go at them.

Soc. Their laughter, friend Euthyphro, is not a matter of much consequence. For a man may be thought wise; but the Athenians, I suspect, do not much trouble themselves about him until he begins to impart his wisdom to others, and then for some reason or other, perhaps, as you say, from jealousy, they are angry.

Euth. I am never likely to try their temper in this way.

Soc. I dare say not, for you are reserved in your behaviour, and seldom impart your wisdom. But I have a benevolent habit of pouring out myself to everybody, and would even pay for a listener, and I am afraid that the Athenians may think me too talkative. Now if, as I was saying, they would only laugh at me, as you say that they laugh at you, the time might pass gaily enough in the court; but perhaps they may be in earnest, and then what the end will be you soothsayers only can predict.

Euth. I dare say that the affair will end in nothing, Socrates, and that you will win your cause; and I think that I shall win my own.

Soc. And what is your suit, Euthyphro? are you the pursuer or the defendant?

Euth. I am the pursuer.

Soc. Of whom?

Euth. You will think me mad when I tell you.

Soc. Why, has the fugitive wings?

Euth. Nay, he is not very volatile at his time of life.

Soc. Who is he?

Euth. My father.

Soc. Your father! my good man?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. And of what is he accused?

Euth. Of murder, Socrates.

Soc. By the powers, Euthyphro! how little does the common herd know of the nature of right and truth. A man must be an extraordinary man, and have made great strides in wisdom, before he could have seen his way to bring such an action.

Euth. Indeed, Socrates, he must.

Soc. I suppose that the man whom your father murdered was one of your relatives-clearly he was; for if he had been a stranger you would never have thought of prosecuting him.

Euth. I am amused, Socrates, at your making a distinction between one who is a relation and one who is not a relation; for surely the pollution is the same in either case, if you knowingly associate with the murderer when you ought to clear yourself and him by proceeding against him. The real question is whether the murdered man has been justly slain. If justly, then your duty is to let the matter alone; but if unjustly, then even if the murderer lives under the same roof with you and eats at the same table, proceed against him. Now the man who is dead was a poor dependent of mine who worked for us as a field labourer on our farm in Naxos, and one day in a fit of drunken passion he got into a quarrel with one of our domestic servants and slew him. My father bound him hand and foot and threw him into a ditch, and then sent to Athens to ask of a diviner what he should do with him. Meanwhile he never attended to him and took no care about him, for he regarded him as a murderer; and thought that no great harm would be done even if he did die. Now this was just what happened. For such was the effect of cold and hunger and chains upon him, that before the messenger returned from the diviner, he was dead. And my father and family are angry with me for taking the part of the murderer and prosecuting my father. They say that he did not kill him, and that if he did, dead man was but a murderer, and I ought not to take any notice, for that a son is impious who prosecutes a father. Which shows, Socrates, how little they know what the gods think about piety and impiety.

Soc. Good heavens, Euthyphro! and is your knowledge of religion and of things pious and impious so very exact, that, supposing the circumstances to be as you state them, you are not afraid lest you too may be doing an impious thing in bringing an action against your father?

Euth. The best of Euthyphro, and that which distinguishes him, Socrates, from other men, is his exact knowledge of all such matters. What should I be good for without it?

Soc. Rare friend! I think that I cannot do better than be your disciple. Then before the trial with Meletus comes on I shall challenge him, and say that I have always had a great interest in religious questions, and now, as he charges me with rash imaginations and innovations in religion, I have become your disciple. You, Meletus, as I shall say to him, acknowledge Euthyphro to be a great theologian, and sound in his opinions; and if you approve of him you ought to approve of me, and not have me into court; but if you disapprove, you should begin by indicting him who is my teacher, and who will be the ruin, not of the young, but of the old; that is to say, of myself whom he instructs, and of his old father whom he admonishes and chastises. And if Meletus refuses to listen to me, but will go on, and will not shift the indictment from me to you, I cannot do better than repeat this challenge in the court.

Euth. Yes, indeed, Socrates; and if he attempts to indict me I am mistaken if I do not find a flaw in him; the court shall have a great deal more to say to him than to me.

Soc. And I, my dear friend, knowing this, am desirous of becoming your disciple. For I observe that no one appears to notice you- not even this Meletus; but his sharp eyes have found me out at once, and he has indicted me for impiety. And therefore, I adjure you to tell me the nature of piety and impiety, which you said that you knew so well, and of murder, and of other offences against the gods. What are they? Is not piety in every action always the same? and impiety, again- is it not always the opposite of piety, and also the same with itself, having, as impiety, one notion which includes whatever is impious?

Euth. To be sure, Socrates.

Soc. And what is piety, and what is impiety?

Euth. Piety is doing as I am doing; that is to say, prosecuting any one who is guilty of murder, sacrilege, or of any similar crime-whether he be your father or mother, or whoever he may be-that makes no difference; and not to prosecute them is impiety. And please to consider, Socrates, what a notable proof I will give you of the truth of my words, a proof which I have already given to others:-of the principle, I mean, that the impious, whoever he may be, ought not to go unpunished. For do not men regard Zeus as the best and most righteous of the gods?-and yet they admit that he bound his father (Cronos) because he wickedly devoured his sons, and that he too had punished his own father (Uranus) for a similar reason, in a nameless manner. And yet when I proceed against my father, they are angry with me. So inconsistent are they in their way of talking when the gods are concerned, and when I am concerned.

Soc. May not this be the reason, Euthyphro, why I am charged with impiety-that I cannot away with these stories about the gods? and therefore I suppose that people think me wrong. But, as you who are well informed about them approve of them, I cannot do better than assent to your superior wisdom. What else can I say, confessing as I do, that I know nothing about them? Tell me, for the love of Zeus, whether you really believe that they are true.

Euth. Yes, Socrates; and things more wonderful still, of which the world is in ignorance.

Soc. And do you really believe that the gods, fought with one another, and had dire quarrels, battles, and the like, as the poets say, and as you may see represented in the works of great artists? The temples are full of them; and notably the robe of Athene, which is carried up to the Acropolis at the great Panathenaea, is embroidered with them. Are all these tales of the gods true, Euthyphro?

Euth. Yes, Socrates; and, as I was saying, I can tell you, if you would like to hear them, many other things about the gods which would quite amaze you.

Soc. I dare say; and you shall tell me them at some other time when I have leisure. But just at present I would rather hear from you a more precise answer, which you have not as yet given, my friend, to the question, What is “piety”? When asked, you only replied, Doing as you do, charging your father with murder.

Euth. And what I said was true, Socrates.

Soc. No doubt, Euthyphro; but you would admit that there are many other pious acts?

Euth. There are.

Soc. Remember that I did not ask you to give me two or three examples of piety, but to explain the general idea which makes all pious things to be pious. Do you not recollect that there was one idea which made the impious impious, and the pious pious?

Euth. I remember.

Soc. Tell me what is the nature of this idea, and then I shall have a standard to which I may look, and by which I may measure actions, whether yours or those of any one else, and then I shall be able to say that such and such an action is pious, such another impious.

Euth. I will tell you, if you like.

Soc. I should very much like.

Euth. Piety, then, is that which is dear to the gods, and impiety is that which is not dear to them.

Soc. Very good, Euthyphro; you have now given me the sort of answer which I wanted. But whether what you say is true or not I cannot as yet tell, although I make no doubt that you will prove the truth of your words.

Euth. Of course.

Soc. Come, then, and let us examine what we are saying. That thing or person which is dear to the gods is pious, and that thing or person which is hateful to the gods is impious, these two being the extreme opposites of one another. Was not that said?

Euth. It was.

Soc. And well said?

Euth. Yes, Socrates, I thought so; it was certainly said.

Soc. And further, Euthyphro, the gods were admitted to have enmities and hatreds and differences?

Euth. Yes, that was also said.

Soc. And what sort of difference creates enmity and anger? Suppose for example that you and I, my good friend, differ about a number; do differences of this sort make us enemies and set us at variance with one another? Do we not go at once to arithmetic, and put an end to them by a sum?

Euth. True.

Soc. Or suppose that we differ about magnitudes, do we not quickly end the differences by measuring?

Euth. Very true.

Soc. And we end a controversy about heavy and light by resorting to a weighing machine?

Euth. To be sure.

Soc. But what differences are there which cannot be thus decided, and which therefore make us angry and set us at enmity with one another? I dare say the answer does not occur to you at the moment, and therefore I will suggest that these enmities arise when the matters of difference are the just and unjust, good and evil, honourable and dishonourable. Are not these the points about which men differ, and about which when we are unable satisfactorily to decide our differences, you and I and all of us quarrel, when we do quarrel?

Euth. Yes, Socrates, the nature of the differences about which we quarrel is such as you describe.

Soc. And the quarrels of the gods, noble Euthyphro, when they occur, are of a like nature?

Euth. Certainly they are.

Soc. They have differences of opinion, as you say, about good and evil, just and unjust, honourable and dishonourable: there would have been no quarrels among them, if there had been no such differences-would there now?

Euth. You are quite right.

Soc. Does not every man love that which he deems noble and just and good, and hate the opposite of them?

Euth. Very true.

Soc. But, as you say, people regard the same things, some as just and others as unjust,-about these they dispute; and so there arise wars and fightings among them.

Euth. Very true.

Soc. Then the same things are hated by the gods and loved by the gods, and are both hateful and dear to them?

Euth. True.

Soc. And upon this view the same things, Euthyphro, will be pious and also impious?

Euth. So I should suppose.

Soc. Then, my friend, I remark with surprise that you have not answered the question which I asked. For I certainly did not ask you to tell me what action is both pious and impious: but now it would seem that what is loved by the gods is also hated by them. And therefore, Euthyphro, in thus chastising your father you may very likely be doing what is agreeable to Zeus but disagreeable to Cronos or Uranus, and what is acceptable to Hephaestus but unacceptable to Here, and there may be other gods who have similar differences of opinion.

Euth. But I believe, Socrates, that all the gods would be agreed as to the propriety of punishing a murderer: there would be no difference of opinion about that.

Soc. Well, but speaking of men, Euthyphro, did you ever hear any one arguing that a murderer or any sort of evil-doer ought to be let off?

Euth. I should rather say that these are the questions which they are always arguing, especially in courts of law: they commit all sorts of crimes, and there is nothing which they will not do or say in their own defence.

Soc. But do they admit their guilt, Euthyphro, and yet say that they ought not to be punished?

Euth. No; they do not.

Soc. Then there are some things which they do not venture to say and do: for they do not venture to argue that the guilty are to be unpunished, but they deny their guilt, do they not?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. Then they do not argue that the evil-doer should not be punished, but they argue about the fact of who the evil-doer is, and what he did and when?

Euth. True.

Soc. And the gods are in the same case, if as you assert they quarrel about just and unjust, and some of them say while others deny that injustice is done among them. For surely neither God nor man will ever venture to say that the doer of injustice is not to be punished?

Euth. That is true, Socrates, in the main.

Soc. But they join issue about the particulars-gods and men alike; and, if they dispute at all, they dispute about some act which is called in question, and which by some is affirmed to be just, by others to be unjust. Is not that true?

Euth. Quite true.

Soc. Well then, my dear friend Euthyphro, do tell me, for my better instruction and information, what proof have you that in the opinion of all the gods a servant who is guilty of murder, and is put in chains by the master of the dead man, and dies because he is put in chains before he who bound him can learn from the interpreters of the gods what he ought to do with him, dies unjustly; and that on behalf of such an one a son ought to proceed against his father and accuse him of murder. How would you show that all the gods absolutely agree in approving of his act? Prove to me that they do, and I will applaud your wisdom as long as I live.

Euth. It will be a difficult task; but I could make the matter very dear indeed to you.

Soc. I understand; you mean to say that I am not so quick of apprehension as the judges: for to them you will be sure to prove that the act is unjust, and hateful to the gods.

Euth. Yes indeed, Socrates; at least if they will listen to me.

Soc. But they will be sure to listen if they find that you are a good speaker. There was a notion that came into my mind while you were speaking; I said to myself: “Well, and what if Euthyphro does prove to me that all the gods regarded the death of the serf as unjust, how do I know anything more of the nature of piety and impiety? for granting that this action may be hateful to the gods, still piety and impiety are not adequately defined by these distinctions, for that which is hateful to the gods has been shown to be also pleasing and dear to them.” And therefore, Euthyphro, I do not ask you to prove this; I will suppose, if you like, that all the gods condemn and abominate such an action. But I will amend the definition so far as to say that what all the gods hate is impious, and what they love pious or holy; and what some of them love and others hate is both or neither. Shall this be our definition of piety and impiety?

Euth. Why not, Socrates?

Soc. Why not! certainly, as far as I am concerned, Euthyphro, there is no reason why not. But whether this admission will greatly assist you in the task of instructing me as you promised, is a matter for you to consider.

Euth. Yes, I should say that what all the gods love is pious and holy, and the opposite which they all hate, impious.

Soc. Ought we to enquire into the truth of this, Euthyphro, or simply to accept the mere statement on our own authority and that of others? What do you say?

Euth. We should enquire; and I believe that the statement will stand the test of enquiry.

Soc. We shall know better, my good friend, in a little while. The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Euth. I do not understand your meaning, Socrates.

Soc. I will endeavour to explain: we, speak of carrying and we speak of being carried, of leading and being led, seeing and being seen. You know that in all such cases there is a difference, and you know also in what the difference lies?

Euth. I think that I understand.

Soc. And is not that which is beloved distinct from that which loves?

Euth. Certainly.

Soc. Well; and now tell me, is that which is carried in this state of carrying because it is carried, or for some other reason?

Euth. No; that is the reason.

Soc. And the same is true of what is led and of what is seen?

Euth. True.

Soc. And a thing is not seen because it is visible, but conversely, visible because it is seen; nor is a thing led because it is in the state of being led, or carried because it is in the state of being carried, but the converse of this. And now I think, Euthyphro, that my meaning will be intelligible; and my meaning is, that any state of action or passion implies previous action or passion. It does not become because it is becoming, but it is in a state of becoming because it becomes; neither does it suffer because it is in a state of suffering, but it is in a state of suffering because it suffers. Do you not agree?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. Is not that which is loved in some state either of becoming or suffering?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. And the same holds as in the previous instances; the state of being loved follows the act of being loved, and not the act the state.

Euth. Certainly.

Soc. And what do you say of piety, Euthyphro: is not piety, according to your definition, loved by all the gods?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. Because it is pious or holy, or for some other reason?

Euth. No, that is the reason.

Soc. It is loved because it is holy, not holy because it is loved?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. And that which is dear to the gods is loved by them, and is in a state to be loved of them because it is loved of them?

Euth. Certainly.

Soc. Then that which is dear to the gods, Euthyphro, is not holy, nor is that which is holy loved of God, as you affirm; but they are two different things.

Euth. How do you mean, Socrates?

Soc. I mean to say that the holy has been acknowledge by us to be loved of God because it is holy, not to be holy because it is loved.

Euth. Yes.

Soc. But that which is dear to the gods is dear to them because it is loved by them, not loved by them because it is dear to them.

Euth. True.

Soc. But, friend Euthyphro, if that which is holy is the same with that which is dear to God, and is loved because it is holy, then that which is dear to God would have been loved as being dear to God; but if that which dear to God is dear to him because loved by him, then that which is holy would have been holy because loved by him. But now you see that the reverse is the case, and that they are quite different from one another. For one (theophiles) is of a kind to be loved cause it is loved, and the other (osion) is loved because it is of a kind to be loved. Thus you appear to me, Euthyphro, when I ask you what is the essence of holiness, to offer an attribute only, and not the essence-the attribute of being loved by all the gods. But you still refuse to explain to me the nature of holiness. And therefore, if you please, I will ask you not to hide your treasure, but to tell me once more what holiness or piety really is, whether dear to the gods or not (for that is a matter about which we will not quarrel) and what is impiety?

Euth. I really do not know, Socrates, how to express what I mean. For somehow or other our arguments, on whatever ground we rest them, seem to turn round and walk away from us.

Soc. Your words, Euthyphro, are like the handiwork of my ancestor Daedalus; and if I were the sayer or propounder of them, you might say that my arguments walk away and will not remain fixed where they are placed because I am a descendant of his. But now, since these notions are your own, you must find some other gibe, for they certainly, as you yourself allow, show an inclination to be on the move.

Euth. Nay, Socrates, I shall still say that you are the Daedalus who sets arguments in motion; not I, certainly, but you make them move or go round, for they would never have stirred, as far as I am concerned.

Soc. Then I must be a greater than Daedalus: for whereas he only made his own inventions to move, I move those of other people as well. And the beauty of it is, that I would rather not. For I would give the wisdom of Daedalus, and the wealth of Tantalus, to be able to detain them and keep them fixed. But enough of this. As I perceive that you are lazy, I will myself endeavor to show you how you might instruct me in the nature of piety; and I hope that you will not grudge your labour. Tell me, then-Is not that which is pious necessarily just?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. And is, then, all which is just pious? or, is that which is pious all just, but that which is just, only in part and not all, pious?

Euth. I do not understand you, Socrates.

Soc. And yet I know that you are as much wiser than I am, as you are younger. But, as I was saying, revered friend, the abundance of your wisdom makes you lazy. Please to exert yourself, for there is no real difficulty in understanding me. What I mean I may explain by an illustration of what I do not mean. The poet (Stasinus) sings-

Of Zeus, the author and creator of all these things,
You will not tell: for where there is fear there is also
reverence. Now I disagree with this poet. Shall I tell you in what respect?

Euth. By all means.

Soc. I should not say that where there is fear there is also reverence; for I am sure that many persons fear poverty and disease, and the like evils, but I do not perceive that they reverence the objects of their fear.

Euth. Very true.

Soc. But where reverence is, there is fear; for he who has a feeling of reverence and shame about the commission of any action, fears and is afraid of an ill reputation.

Euth. No doubt.

Soc. Then we are wrong in saying that where there is fear there is also reverence; and we should say, where there is reverence there is also fear. But there is not always reverence where there is fear; for fear is a more extended notion, and reverence is a part of fear, just as the odd is a part of number, and number is a more extended notion than the odd. I suppose that you follow me now?

Euth. Quite well.

Soc. That was the sort of question which I meant to raise when I asked whether the just is always the pious, or the pious always the just; and whether there may not be justice where there is not piety; for justice is the more extended notion of which piety is only a part. Do you dissent?

Euth. No, I think that you are quite right.

Soc. Then, if piety is a part of justice, I suppose that we should enquire what part? If you had pursued the enquiry in the previous cases; for instance, if you had asked me what is an even number, and what part of number the even is, I should have had no difficulty in replying, a number which represents a figure having two equal sides. Do you not agree?

Euth. Yes, I quite agree.

Soc. In like manner, I want you to tell me what part of justice is piety or holiness, that I may be able to tell Meletus not to do me injustice, or indict me for impiety, as I am now adequately instructed by you in the nature of piety or holiness, and their opposites.

Euth. Piety or holiness, Socrates, appears to me to be that part of justice which attends to the gods, as there is the other part of justice which attends to men.

Soc. That is good, Euthyphro; yet still there is a little point about which I should like to have further information, What is the meaning of “attention”? For attention can hardly be used in the same sense when applied to the gods as when applied to other things. For instance, horses are said to require attention, and not every person is able to attend to them, but only a person skilled in horsemanship. Is it not so?

Euth. Certainly.

Soc. I should suppose that the art of horsemanship is the art of attending to horses?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. Nor is every one qualified to attend to dogs, but only the huntsman?

Euth. True.

Soc. And I should also conceive that the art of the huntsman is the art of attending to dogs?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. As the art of the ox herd is the art of attending to oxen?

Euth. Very true.

Soc. In like manner holiness or piety is the art of attending to the gods?-that would be your meaning, Euthyphro?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. And is not attention always designed for the good or benefit of that to which the attention is given? As in the case of horses, you may observe that when attended to by the horseman’s art they are benefited and improved, are they not?

Euth. True.

Soc. As the dogs are benefited by the huntsman’s art, and the oxen by the art of the ox herd, and all other things are tended or attended for their good and not for their hurt?

Euth. Certainly, not for their hurt.

Soc. But for their good?

Euth. Of course.

Soc. And does piety or holiness, which has been defined to be the art of attending to the gods, benefit or improve them? Would you say that when you do a holy act you make any of the gods better?

Euth. No, no; that was certainly not what I meant.

Soc. And I, Euthyphro, never supposed that you did. I asked you the question about the nature of the attention, because I thought that you did not.

Euth. You do me justice, Socrates; that is not the sort of attention which I mean.

Soc. Good: but I must still ask what is this attention to the gods which is called piety?

Euth. It is such, Socrates, as servants show to their masters.

Soc. I understand-a sort of ministration to the gods.

Euth. Exactly.

Soc. Medicine is also a sort of ministration or service, having in view the attainment of some object-would you not say of health?

Euth. I should.

Soc. Again, there is an art which ministers to the ship-builder with a view to the attainment of some result?

Euth. Yes, Socrates, with a view to the building of a ship.

Soc. As there is an art which ministers to the housebuilder with a view to the building of a house?

Euth. Yes.

Soc. And now tell me, my good friend, about the art which ministers to the gods: what work does that help to accomplish? For you must surely know if, as you say, you are of all men living the one who is best instructed in religion.

Euth. And I speak the truth, Socrates.

Soc. Tell me then, oh tell me-what is that fair work which the gods do by the help of our ministrations?

Euth. Many and fair, Socrates, are the works which they do. Soc. Why, my friend, and so are those of a general. But the chief of them is easily told. Would you not say that victory in war is the chief of them?

Euth. Certainly.

Soc. Many and fair, too, are the works of the husbandman, if I am not mistaken; but his chief work is the production of food from the earth?

Euth. Exactly.

Soc. And of the many and fair things done by the gods, which is the chief or principal one?

Euth. I have told you already, Socrates, that to learn all these things accurately will be very tiresome. Let me simply say that piety or holiness is learning, how to please the gods in word and deed, by prayers and sacrifices. Such piety, is the salvation of families and states, just as the impious, which is unpleasing to the gods, is their ruin and destruction.

Soc. I think that you could have answered in much fewer words the chief question which I asked, Euthyphro, if you had chosen. But I see plainly that you are not disposed to instruct me-dearly not: else why, when we reached the point, did you turn, aside? Had you only answered me I should have truly learned of you by this time the-nature of piety. Now, as the asker of a question is necessarily dependent on the answerer, whither he leads-I must follow; and can only ask again, what is the pious, and what is piety? Do you mean that they are a, sort of science of praying and sacrificing?

Euth. Yes, I do.

Soc. And sacrificing is giving to the gods, and prayer is asking of the gods?

Euth. Yes, Socrates.

Soc. Upon this view, then piety is a science of asking and giving?

Euth. You understand me capitally, Socrates.

Soc. Yes, my friend; the. reason is that I am a votary of your science, and give my mind to it, and therefore nothing which you say will be thrown away upon me. Please then to tell me, what is the nature of this service to the gods? Do you mean that we prefer requests and give gifts to them?

Euth. Yes, I do.

Soc. Is not the right way of asking to ask of them what we want?

Euth. Certainly.

Soc. And the right way of giving is to give to them in return what they want of us. There would be no, in an art which gives to any one that which he does not want.

Euth. Very true, Socrates.

Soc. Then piety, Euthyphro, is an art which gods and men have of doing business with one another?

Euth. That is an expression which you may use, if you like.

Soc. But I have no particular liking for anything but the truth. I wish, however, that you would tell me what benefit accrues to the gods from our gifts. There is no doubt about what they give to us; for there is no good thing which they do not give; but how we can give any good thing to them in return is far from being equally clear. If they give everything and we give nothing, that must be an affair of business in which we have very greatly the advantage of them.

Euth. And do you imagine, Socrates, that any benefit accrues to the gods from our gifts?

Soc. But if not, Euthyphro, what is the meaning of gifts which are conferred by us upon the gods?

Euth. What else, but tributes of honour; and, as I was just now saying, what pleases them?

Soc. Piety, then, is pleasing to the gods, but not beneficial or dear to them?

Euth. I should say that nothing could be dearer.

Soc. Then once more the assertion is repeated that piety is dear to the gods?

Euth. Certainly.

Soc. And when you say this, can you wonder at your words not standing firm, but walking away? Will you accuse me of being the Daedalus who makes them walk away, not perceiving that there is another and far greater artist than Daedalus who makes them go round in a circle, and he is yourself; for the argument, as you will perceive, comes round to the same point. Were we not saying that the holy or pious was not the same with that which is loved of the gods? Have you forgotten?

Euth. I quite remember.

Soc. And are you not saying that what is loved of the gods is holy; and is not this the same as what is dear to them-do you see?

Euth. True.

Soc. Then either we were wrong in former assertion; or, if we were right then, we are wrong now.

Euth. One of the two must be true.

Soc. Then we must begin again and ask, What is piety? That is an enquiry which I shall never be weary of pursuing as far as in me lies; and I entreat you not to scorn me, but to apply your mind to the utmost, and tell me the truth. For, if any man knows, you are he; and therefore I must detain you, like Proteus, until you tell. If you had not certainly known the nature of piety and impiety, I am confident that you would never, on behalf of a serf, have charged your aged father with murder. You would not have run such a risk of doing wrong in the sight of the gods, and you would have had too much respect for the opinions of men. I am sure, therefore, that you know the nature of piety and impiety. Speak out then, my dear Euthyphro, and do not hide your knowledge.

Euth. Another time, Socrates; for I am in a hurry, and must go now.

Soc. Alas! my companion, and will you leave me in despair? I was hoping that you would instruct me in the nature of piety and impiety; and then I might have cleared myself of Meletus and his indictment. I would have told him that I had been enlightened by Euthyphro, and had given up rash innovations and speculations, in which I indulged only through ignorance, and that now I am about to lead a better life.

THE END

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63 Responses

  1. God command it because it is morally good. Moral means knowing what is good from wrong. If God commands it because it is good. It means that God base his commands on what is already morally good. God command moral good that already exist because if God created the world that includes rape, murder and corruption as virtues while patience, fortitude and piety are vices then they had happen already even if God commanded these, they will still be considered immoral.

  2. An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morally good means not committing thyself on unrighteous and unjust conducts. You never fight against the will of God and against the will of man ,respectively.
    God is MORAL in its name. Everything that He say, everything that He command has its own meaning. He has plans on everything, He’s the only One who knows what is moral and what is immoral, then we follow.

    On the day we were born, God already planned for what we will be having in this world, it’s up to us on how are we going to work on with our lives. Everything that God has said and commanded must be obeyed. He will never lead His children(us) on the darkness for His words and His totality are MORAL in itself. Sometimes we struggle to obey His commands because of the fear of being judged by the other human being, but let’s put in mind that He would never let evil things engulf our lives; He wouldn’t let His children be humiliated because of His commands. It is natural to face or to experience failures and pain, but after these hurtful elements, we can realize our mistakes, learn our lessons, discover our strengths and our weaknesses, and achieve our goal; just let GOD be your leader and be a good follower; just do your best and God will take care on the rest.

    There could never be morality if there is no GOD. If He’s not around, how can we realize and know what is right or wrong, and what is moral or immoral? Knowing that He is the omniscient and omnipotent “being”, He’s the One who had given us the capability to think, if He’s not around what would happen? How can we think on our own? He and only Him knows what is our purpose here on earth, it’s up to us on how we are going to discover it.

  3. Morality, in its first descriptive usage, morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience. In its second, normative and universal sense, morality refers to an ideal code of conduct, one which would be espoused in preference to alternatives by all rational people, under specified conditions. To deny ‘morality’ in this sense is a position known as moral skepticism. In its third usage, ‘morality’ is synonymous with ethics, the systematic philosophical study of the moral domain.

    Action, even if without god;s command, it can be morally good and not. It depends on the person who’s going to act the action. Every people has an ability to think wether their action is moral or immoral.It becomes a legal moral because god commanded it though. So, god commanded it because he knows that our action is good to ourselves and to other people around us. Some actions are immoral but it is moral when it comes to us. For example, the ‘Euthanasia’, it is immoral to god because based on his commandments we cannot kill people, but in its situation we can’t let him/her suffer to his/her sickness which is, his/her chance of healing is very low.

  4. An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morally good means not committing thyself on unrighteous and unjust conducts. You never fight against the will of God and against the will of man ,respectively.
    God is MORAL in its name. Everything that He say, everything that He command has its own meaning. He has plans on everything, He’s the only One who knows what is moral and what is immoral, then we follow.

    On the day we were born, God already planned for what we will be having in this world, it’s up to us on how are we going to work on with our lives. Everything that God has said and commanded must be obeyed. He will never lead His children(us) on the darkness for His words and His totality are MORAL in itself. Sometimes we struggle to obey His commands because of the fear of being judged by the other human being, but let’s put in mind that He would never let evil things engulf our lives; He wouldn’t let His children be humiliated because of His commands. It is natural to face or to experience failures and pain, but after these hurtful elements, we can realize our mistakes, learn our lessons, discover our strengths and our weaknesses, and achieve our goal; just let GOD be your leader and be a good follower; just do your best and God will take care on the rest.

    There could never be morality if there is no GOD. If He’s not around, how can we realize and know what is right or wrong, and what is moral or immoral? Knowing that He is the omniscient and omnipotent “being”, He’s the One who had given us the capability to think, if He’s not around what would happen? How can we think on our own? He and only Him knows what is our purpose here on earth, it’s up to us on how we are going to discover it.

  5. I therefore conclude that God loves moral because he is good and therefore commands moral in his revelation to man.

    Moral is doing what you thing is good. If you are doing good to others then what you’re doing is moral. Moral is about loving other people and do what is good.

    The God loves moral because it is the right thing to do. Moral is all about loving others. Moral is good because if there is no moral the world will be more chaotic than it is. Our God taught us to do good because he will not lead us to any harm.

    What if we discover that is no God. For me I’ll still be doing good things to others because I know it is the right thing to do. For me I will still believe in God no matter what because if there is no God our lives will be miserable.

  6. I therefore conclude that God loves moral because he is good and therefore commands moral in his revelation to man.

    Moral is doing what you thing is good. If you are doing good to others then what you’re doing is moral. Moral is about loving other people and do what is good.

    The God loves moral because it is the right thing to do. Moral is all about loving others. Moral is good because if there is no moral the world will be more chaotic than it is. Our God taught us to do good because he will not lead us to any harm.

    What if we discover that is no God. For me I’ll still be doing good things to others because I know it is the right thing to do. For me I will still believe in God no matter what because if there is no God our lives will be miserable.

  7. sir i love you

  8. Is something moral because the Gods love it, or the Gods love it because it is moral?

    The Gods LOVE something because it is MORAL.

    Morality is being in accord with the standards of right and good conduct while moral is concern with the judgement principles of right and wrong in relation to human action or character. Therefore, the key to a moral life is the human person itself, in the light of both reason and faith. People stick to morality wherein what their God wants or commands to the people even if it is just a test on their faith is morally right and good in their perspective.

    Humanity is gifted with freedom, to choose the right from wrong. Morality is the theory that every human act must be either right or wrong, and that 99% of them is wrong. People make moral things inorder to please the Gods, so that when the Gods are pleased, we are happy. It is not the doctrine of how we make ourselves happy, good, or right but how how we make ourselves worthy of it. A perfect example of this is the test of Abraham’s faith in God. Do we make ourselves happy because we are obeying God and it pleases Him, or do we make ourselves happy because we are worthy of the happiness? God stopped Abraham in his attempt to kill Isaac, his son, because God proved that Abraham is ever faithful to Him. It is an example of what and how people think of morality. Can we say to God that it was wrong to kill even if its God’s will to kill someone? God knew in the first place that killing is wrong, it is not moral. Often, we say and think that God’s order is always right, but sometimes, His order is not moral and God just testing our faith in Him because He really knew right from wrong, moral from immoral.

    God loves something because it is moral and not just because He loves it to be moral. Morality is the basis of things and truth is the substance of all morality. There is no morality by instinct. There is no social salvation in the end without taking thought, without mastery of logic and application of logic to human experience. Morality is a test of our conformity and faith, rather than integrity.

  9. Is something moral because the Gods love it, or the Gods love it because it is moral?

    The Gods LOVE something because it is MORAL.

    Morality is being in accord with the standards of right and good conduct while moral is concern with the judgement principles of right and wrong in relation to human action or character. Therefore, the key to a moral life is the human person itself, in the light of both reason and faith. People stick to morality wherein what their God wants or commands to the people even if it is just a test on their faith is morally right and good in their perspective.

    Humanity is gifted with freedom, to choose the right from wrong. Morality is the theory that every human act must be either right or wrong, and that 99% of them is wrong. People make moral things inorder to please the Gods, so that when the Gods are pleased, we are happy. It is not the doctrine of how we make ourselves happy, good, or right but how we make ourselves worthy of it. A perfect example of this is the test of Abraham’s faith in God. Do we make ourselves happy because we are obeying God and it pleases Him, or do we make ourselves happy because we are worthy of the happiness? God stopped Abraham in his attempt to kill Isaac, his son, because God proved that Abraham is ever faithful to Him. It is an example of what and how people think of morality. Can we say to God that it was wrong to kill even if its God’s will to kill someone? God knew in the first place that killing is wrong, it is not moral. Often, we say and think that God’s order is always right, but sometimes, His order is not moral and God is just testing our faith in Him because He really knew right from wrong, moral from immoral.

    God loves something because it is moral and not just because He loves it to be moral. Morality is the basis of things and truth is the substance of all morality. There is no morality by instinct. There is no social salvation in the end without taking thought, without mastery of logic and application of logic to human experience. Morality is a test of our conformity and faith, rather than integrity.

  10. mhacky ang sexy mo tlga!

  11. Is something moral because God loves it, or God loves it because it is moral?

    Morality means proper behavior, God is pleased by the moral actions of everyone if there is no morality how can there be a God. Morality is created by God for us to learn how to live in peace and prosperity. Imagine a life without morality all crimes are legal there will be no peace on earth all lives will be worthless. All moral acts are loved by God especially when it came from the heart but even though some people are not completely moral they are still live by God and God will show them the path to morality and happiness. Therefore God will show us how to be moral not because in order to be love but because he is showing us how he loves us from time to time.

    SIR sana magustohan nyo nanosebleed ako d2 madaming tissue ang ginamit ko para lng mapunasan ang mga dugong nanggagaling sa ilong ko! hehehe 🙂

    gudnyt!

  12. Is something moral because God loves it, or God loves it because it is moral?

    Morality means proper behavior, God is pleased by the moral actions of everyone if there is no morality how can there be a God. Morality is created by God for us to learn how to live in peace and prosperity. Imagine a life without morality all crimes are legal there will be no peace on earth all lives will be worthless. All moral acts are loved by God especially when it came from the heart but even though some people are not completely moral they are still live by God and God will show them the path to morality and happiness. Therefore God will show us how to be moral not because in order to be love but because he is showing us how he loves us from time to time.

    SIR sana magustohan nyo nanosebleed ako d2 madaming tissue ang ginamit ko para lng mapunasan ang mga dugong nanggagaling sa ilong ko! hehehe

    gudnyt!

  13. I strongly believe that God commands something because it is morally good.

    Morality is a set of norms to determine whether an action is good or bad. It is also a set of beliefs and practices related to the notion of right conduct or good character. God created this norms for us to be guided to the right path.

    I think that something is good because we really believe that it is good. We don’t do something good because someone just tells us to do it. We do good things because we personally believe that is is the right thing to do. God gives us moral norms to follow but He does not force us to do it. These norms serve only as guides for us. We have our own will to judge something if it is the right thing to do.

    If you say that an action is morally good because God commands it, you’re trying also trying to say that God told you to do this because it is good. You’re like a robot who follows his master without knowing what he’s really doing. If you do something that somebody commands you to do, you are following that person, not your personal will that you believe it is really indeed the right thing to do. You might not even know if what you’re doing is right or wrong because you are blinded by the fact that you need to follow the command you’re being asked to follow. And so, the next you’re gonna do something, you better ask yourself, “Do I really know what I am doing? Does it follow?”

  14. I strongly believe that God commands something because it is morally good.

    Morality is a set of norms to determine whether an action is good or bad. It is also a set of beliefs and practices related to the notion of right conduct or good character. God created this norms for us to be guided to the right path.

    I think that something is good because we really believe that it is good. We don’t do something good because someone just tells us to do it. We do good things because we personally believe that is is the right thing to do. God gives us moral norms to follow but He does not force us to do it. These norms serve only as guides for us. We have our own will to judge something.

    If you say that an action is morally good because God commands it, you’re trying also trying to say that it is good because God told you it is good. You’re like a robot who follows his master without knowing what he’s really doing. If you do something that somebody commands you to do, you are following that person, not your personal will that you believe it is really indeed the right thing to do. You might not even know if what you’re doing is right or wrong because you are blinded by the fact that you need to follow the command you’re being asked to follow and nothing else related to it. And so, the next time you’re gonna do something, you better ask yourself, “Do I really know what I am doing? Does it follow what I personally believe in?”

  15. An action is morally good because God commands it.

    The term moral means of being capable of right and wrong action or of being governed by a sense of right. It is also a subject to the law of duty. It is accompanied by the term good that is for possessing moral excellence or virtue; virtuous; pious; religious; – said of persons or actions. God is the Supreme Being; the eternal and infinite Spirit, the Creator, and the Sovereign of the universe.

    We can say that God is the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe. He rules the universe with good intention. That is for us to follow Him to the right path, to be enlightened with His goodness. I can say that an action is morally good because God commands it. I know that God is the root of all goodness. He taught us the right, to be His good follower. He made us, to make goodness the number one rule of all humanities that we should follow. I know that He will not teach us the evil one because I know that His plan is to make goodness be in each one of us not the evil. If God is giving commands, I will not think twice because I know that His commands are for our own good also. He wants all of us to have goodness in our heart. And He want goodness to reign in the world.

    On the other hand, we can also say that God command it because it is morally good, because for me, all that God commands are good. He will not say a command that will make us an evil people. If it is morally good, God can consider it as one of His command. He will make a command that can make us a better person not to be worst.

  16. An action is morally good because God commands it.

    The term moral means of being capable of right and wrong action or of being governed by a sense of right. It is also a subject to the law of duty. It is accompanied by the term good that is for possessing moral excellence or virtue, a virtuous, pious, and religious. It is being said of persons or actions. God is the Supreme Being; the eternal and infinite Spirit, the Creator, and the Sovereign of the universe.

    We can say that God is the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe. He rules the universe with good intention. That is for us to follow Him to the right path, to be enlightened with His goodness. I can say that an action is morally good because God commands it. I know that God is the root of all goodness. He taught us the right, to be His good follower. He made us, to make goodness the number one rule of all humanities that we should follow. I know that He will not teach us the evil one because I know that His plan is to make goodness be in each one of us not the evil. If God is giving commands, I will not think twice because I know that His commands are for our own good also. He wants all of us to have goodness in our heart. And He wants goodness to reign in the world.

    On the other hand, we can also say that God command it because it is morally good, because for me, all that God commands are good. He will not say a command that will make us an evil people. If it is morally good, God can consider it as one of His command. He will make a command that can make us a better person not to be worst.

  17. I believe that the authority/gods love it because it is moral.

    Morality is the extent to which something is right or wrong. Therefore, it is a system of values. Morality is a territory of its own. It stands independently in the world.

    The authority is known to be wise, good, dignified and just. In fact, it can’t stand alone without the basis of morality.

    The laws of today are encoded and sealed because it is based on the morality of it’s people. The laws simply summarize the product of the morality. So the authority, therefore, chooses what’s good and beneficial to it’s fellow men.

    For example: In an ethnic group, beheading is one of their traditions, which is also considered as a rule. Before it became a rule, that, perhaps, is performed by one who thinks that beheading is moral for it ends one’s pain. So then the people immitate and believe as well. So a belief is born. The authority now create the law of beheading for it is believed that it is moral and just.

    On the other hand, if there was something moral because the authority loves it, then, it explains that they themselves based their laws on their own morality, disregarding the morality of its people. Therefore, they create the morality for its people which is somehow questionable. Then the people might contradict some because the majority have their own propositions.

    I say that morality itself creates the laws/rules and not the authority makes the morality for each law is based on the moral code of the people or something.

  18. Morality is independent from authority.

    Authority means “the right to command and to enforce obedience”. Morality means “the doctrine of man’s moral duties”. It also means “virtuous conduct”.

    Morality, in my belief, can be independent from authority. Authority does love morality but morality does not depend upon the authority. For example, doing right is moral even if the authority does not proclaim to the world that they love it.

    On the other side, if the authority has control of morality, then morality should have the meaning of “everything that the authority permits” and not “virtuous conduct”. Authority does not love morality for it to be moral, authority loves morality because it is already moral.
    Morality is independent from authority.

  19. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    Something that is morally good conforms to the standards of what is sound and just—not just because some god commands it.

    Moral means conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous. Good on the other hand means sound or valid. God is defined as the creator and ruler of the universe.

    Being a god does not make one a moral ruler; so if a god commands something, it does not really follow that it is morally good. A god can either be moral or immoral; therefore, a god can probably command something either morally good or something immoral. Something morally good conforms to a higher law that which can be broken but is recognized as binding. This ‘higher law” is the standard of what is right and just. This is the one which should be recognized.

    For the opposite:

    Being a god makes one the Supreme Being and ruler of the universe. A god being the Supreme Being commands for the good of everyone. A god therefore is moral. Since a god is moral, the things this Supreme Being will command is for that reason morally good. We can conclude now that an action is morally good because God commands it—because god himself/herself is moral.

  20. Yes, there can be morality even without the authorities.

    Morality is a virtue in doing the right things; it is about piety and holiness. Right is the legal or moral entitlement to do or refrain from doing something wrong. Wrong refers to a situation wherein an individual has made an error or misjudgment.

    Authorities are like shepherds who guide and protect his/her own flock. We may abide in their rules and polices for our own benefit, while on the other hand we can disobey and ignore them but there will always be an equivalent punishment or consequence for it. In this life we make our own decisions and directions. Each of us can do something moral even with out their guidance because each of us can differentiate what is wrong from what is right.

    While on the other hand, authorities are really a big help to us, because their commandments and laws are the truth about this world we live in. God would be glad if we obey Him and follow His commandments because these aren’t just for Him but for our own sake. We do these moral things to others because we love to honor God in our simple works.

  21. “Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    ANSWER:

    An action is morally good because GOD commands it to be.

    We may define GOD as the supreme being that is said to be the creator and ruler of the universe whom the people believed and worshiped for years with the faith of being saved by Salvation. Moral is stated here as point of view or understanding of an individual to distinguish the right from the wrong doings. Good on the other hand is described as the state of being virtuous and worthy to the deeds that feels positive in a person who is situated.

    GOD is the most high of all, HE is the way, the truth, and the life. What ever HIS judgments are, it is divine and its from HIS Holy Will. We ,humans, are not capable enough to understand the all the perception of GOD. That is why when HE says, that something is good, it is good because it has its own reason of being good that only GOD can thoroughly explain; although we have our own reasons on things that are good and moral, it only from the knowledge of man which far beyond from which GOD has. All we know that GOD is perfect in every way that HE is. HIS PERFECT form fills up our incompleteness of our point of views about life…

    GODBLESS US!!!

  22. I think that God commands something because it is morally good.

    Moral is something which is concerned with right actions that result to good reactions from other people. God is the creator of everything and everyone believes that God never make such things which is wrong. Everything that God made has a purpose and He is a person of supreme value.

    If we are going to observe the Ten Commandments, we can see that those are the roots of good things. If you do something wrong or bad, surely you have violated one of those. God never commands something that will lead us to misfortune. We are the ones who decide on our actions and we choose to do the good one because we believe that God’s words will lead us to the good path. In this case, everything that was commanded by God is absolutely good and there’s no doubt about it.

    If we are going to look at the other side, we cannot immediately say that something is morally good because God commanded it. If we think deeper, there are lots of things that God did not tell us to do, but it is morally good. Things can be morally good even if God did not command it, considering that it is right. For everyone to really understand what I am saying, God’s commands will never be immoral or wrong, therefore God’s commands will always be moral or right.

  23. “Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    ANS: I believe that God tells something because it is morally good.

    morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.

    right is the legal or moral entitlement to do or refrain from doing something, or to obtain or refrain from obtaining an action, thing or recognition in civil society. Rights serve as rules of interaction between people, and, as such, they place constraints and obligations upon the actions of individuals or groups, for example, “if one has a right to life, this means that others do not have the liberty to kill him”.

    God is most often conceived of as the creator of the universe.

  24. “Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    ANS: I believe that God tells something because it is morally good.

    morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.

    right is the legal or moral entitlement to do or refrain from doing something, or to obtain or refrain from obtaining an action, thing or recognition in civil society. Rights serve as rules of interaction between people, and, as such, they place constraints and obligations upon the actions of individuals or groups, for example, “if one has a right to life, this means that others do not have the liberty to kill him”.

    God is most often conceived of as the creator of the universe.

    can u dig it suc***??

  25. “Is something moral because the Gods love it, or the Gods love it because it is moral?”

    For me, the Gods love it because it is moral.

    Moral is a term which means being concerned with right and wrong and the distinctions between them while the term “Gods” indicates the authority or person(s) with influence and enforce obedience.

    As individuals, we have differrent values, views, and opinions, which is based on so many factors like our upbringing, like what our parents or relatives have instilled on us as a child; there’s also the socio-economic factor, this pertains to the kind of society a person has grown up to; and lastly, the church or religion we have faith on…These are all contributing factors on an individual’s sense of morality.

    For example, the issue of “Pre-marital sex”; the church clearly doesn’t approve of this, and instead teaches us to wait until after getting married before practicing it. This is based on what they think is morally upright in the eyes of God. They have complete faith in what they believe in and by that, they’ve learned to love it.

    On the other hand, something is moral because the Gods love it, means that the authorities/Gods try to make or set standards of what is moral or not based on their own principles. They like the idea of being looked up to by people and ,thus, embrace the same principles as set by them being the authorities.

  26. “Is something moral because the Gods love it, or the Gods love it because it is moral?”

    For me, the Gods love it because it is moral.

    Moral is a term which means being concerned with right and wrong and the distinctions between them while the term “Gods” indicates the authority or person(s) with influence and enforce obedience.

    As individuals, we have differrent values, views, and opinions, which is based on so many factors like our upbringing, like what our parents or relatives have instilled on us as a child; there’s also the socio-economic factor, this pertains to the kind of society a person has grown up to; and lastly, the church or religion we have faith on…These are all contributing factors on an individual’s sense of morality.

    For example, the issue of “Pre-marital sex”; the church clearly doesn’t approve of this, and instead teaches us to wait until after getting married before practicing it. This is based on what they think is morally upright in the eyes of God and society. They have complete faith in what they believe in and by that, they’ve learned to love it.

    On the other hand, something is moral because the Gods love it, means that the authorities/Gods try to make or set standards of what is moral or not based on their own principles. They like the idea of being looked up to by people and ,thus, embrace the same principles as set by them being the authorities.

  27. God is the basis for Ethics and Moral Good. Everything that contains God is Good, and vica versa, because God is pure good. Therefore, a person who rejects God will immediately reject goodness and therefore have evil, or suffering, appear in its place.

    Morality, in normative and universal sense, refers to an ideal code of conduct, one which would be espoused in preference to alternatives by all rational people, under specified conditions.

    This puts forward two alternative positions that a religious person might take: either what God commands is right simply because God commands it, or God commands what is right because it is right. The first of these alternative, what might be called the fundamentalist position, seems to imply that God’s command sets an arbitrary standard which we have no moral reason for following; we may indeed only follow it out of fear of the consequences of failing to do so.

    The second alternative is equally troubling for the religious person. It seems to imply that the divine command is irrelevant to ethics and that ethical standards are established independent of religious considerations. It also sets limits on divine omnipotence by suggesting that God is compelled to act in a certain way because that is what is ethical.

  28. Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good

    I surely agree that an action is morally good because God commands it.

  29. I strongly agree that God commands it because it is morally good.

    Moral is concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character.

    God has created us the human beings. He gave us food, water and shelter. He is our creator. We are the children of God the creator, the almighty. He loves us very much that he gave us freedom to do anything we want. God commands us because it is morally good. An example of God’s command is the 10 commandments. This commandments has guided human beings to do the right conduct.

    On the other hand, an action is morally good because the God’s command it. Even though Moises has killed plenty of person in Egypt he was still helped by God. Moises has save his people from treachery and from being slaves. He had done something morally good by the help of God and by helping his people.

  30. God give us the ability to decide for our own and with that i can say that being “morality” can still be existing without the presence of our gods

    Being moral means treating humans as humans not a thing that will satisfy our needs and the term God refers to the one created us the who give us life

    As human beings we have our brains to decide for ourself. We can tell which is right or which is wrong. And the gods or our God has nothing to do with the way we decide for our self. Thus in doing things we don’t need them we can be “moral” by our own selves with our brain we judge things us what morality means

    But, God’s the one who inspires and influences us. He gave us his only son to guide us and become free from immorality.

  31. “Is something moral because the Gods love it, or the Gods love it because it is moral?”

    Morality describes the principles that govern our behavior. Without this principles in place, societies cannot survive for long. In todays world, morality is frequently thought of as belonging to a particular religious point of view, but by definition, we see that this is not the case. Everyone adheres to a moral doctrine of some kind.

    God, the great creator of all the things that we see,we know, we have, and also us, we all know that God is such a good creator that’s why we know what is wrong and what is right.

    for me, something is moral because the God loves it, because God is our creator and can decide all the things that can happen.

  32. aun ntpos din 6:10am…hang over pa..sir 10pts yan!

  33. How do you define “moral”?
    Morality (from the Latin moralitas “manner, character, proper behavior”).
    morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, (it can be morally positive or morally negative) morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.
    “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?
    whats the difference between right and wrong, is there any differences? the judgement of being right and wrong is base upon the norms of the humans… if our norms was killing is good therefore it is right but it is not beacuse it is not the norms that we used to.
    humans are created by god with freedom to choose, to believe, to do anything he want, with his own opinion of right and wrong.
    Human is created to the image and likeness of God therefore “God command it beacuse it is morally good,” the example of this is the norms of our laws and regulations, we humans create laws that we think that will be better for us(morally good) and that is how the norms are set and the judgement of right and wrong enters…
    For me u can be morally good without god (“Is an action morally good beacuse God comamands it,”). Laws and Regulations are set to serves as limatator for the human to do bad things.

  34. i love you XINA!! can u dig it su*ka?

  35. moral?
    moral is the ability to determine good and bad.
    and God is good.

  36. moral?
    moral is the ability to determine good and bad.
    and God is good.
    therefore, something is moral because the God loves it.

    Amen.

  37. I strongly agree that God commands it because morality is good.
    Morality (from the Latin moralitas “manner, character, proper behavior”) has three principal meanings.In its first descriptive usage, morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.
    In its second, normative and universal sense, morality refers to an ideal code of conduct, one which would be espoused in preference to alternatives by all rational people, under specified conditions. To deny ‘morality’ in this sense is a position known as moral skepticism.
    God, all we known as the creator o the world and the creator of all human beings. For me if some things are moral,because God loves it. So that if he love’s the world, he will not give us the will to do wrong things but he will thought us to do the right things and for the sake of us and for the sake of other human being.

  38. There is MORALITY because of the GOD/AUTHORITY.

    Moral good refers to the systematic endeavor to understand moral concepts. It is also to justify moral principles and theories. Moral good undertakes to analyze such concept as “right, wrong, permissible, ought, good, and evil” in their moral context. It seeks to establish principles of right behavior that my serve as action guide for individuals and group. It investigates which values and virtues are paramount to be worthwhile life for society.

    Moral appear to men’s wisdom and could be more disillusioned than saying like, ‘charity begins at home’ and promote a rogue’s rules to hell sue you for damage. It says that man is inclined to evil and must have firm rules to restrain with every existence as an innate idea that which man has a paradigm in order to have the moral idea, that which limits things which are morally active, means that God equals moral that it is necessary to draw the consequences of his absence right to the very end.

    Mostly of existentialist oppose strongly to the type of secular morality which attempts to suppers morality that suppress God at the least possible expense. It is good to have this moral concept which Dostoivsky wrote, “If God did not exist, and everything would be permitted.” God that gives moral law help to reproduce this moral concept which therefore have its reason means for moral identity.

  39. There is MORALITY because of the GOD/AUTHORITY…

    Moral good refers to the systematic endeavor to understand moral concepts. It is also to justify moral principles and theories. Moral good undertakes to analyze such concept as “right, wrong, permissible, ought, good, and evil” in their moral context. It seeks to establish principles of right behavior that my serve as action guide for individuals and group. It investigates which values and virtues are paramount to be worthwhile life for society.

    Moral appear to men’s wisdom and could be more disillusioned than saying like, ‘charity begins at home’ and promote a rogue’s rules to hell sue you for damage. It says that man is inclined to evil and must have firm rules to restrain with every existence as an innate idea that which man has a paradigm in order to have the moral idea, that which limits things which are morally active, means that God equals moral that it is necessary to draw the consequences of his absence right to the very end.

    Mostly of existentialist oppose strongly to the type of secular morality which attempts to suppers morality that suppress God at the least possible expense. It is good to have this moral concept which Dostoivsky wrote, “If God did not exist, and everything would be permitted.” God that gives moral law help to reproduce this moral concept which therefore have its reason means for moral identity.

  40. First of all, If it is morally good because God commands it, then the basis of right conduct and good life becomes arbitrary and the notion leads to absurdities.If God commands it because it is morally good, then good is independent of God and God is not the basis of right conduct and good life.

    I agree With God commands it because it is morally good. because i believe that god doesn’t basically command’s people that are innate or absurd to ourselve’s.

    Morality is also synonymous to ethics that means basis of right conduct and good life and also an ideal conduct of life.

    God commands it because it is morally good because god is not the basis of ethics,and the rule of life is basically given to us by the lord in good manners. on the day we were born, the good things that god wanted us to do is already applied w/o us knowing when it was,then therefore the things we do is not the things that god wanted us to do, these are things that are created by us. for example :
    1.If God commanded rape, then rape would be ethical.
    2.Rape is not ethical.
    3.Therefore: divine command theory is wrong w/c means an act is obligatory if and only if, and because, it is commanded by God.
    So things that are commanded by god is basically the things that are set by him in the 1st place and is for the better for all.

    (”Is an action morally good beacuse God comamands it,”). cannot be for me because it would mean that life was decided by decidedly illogical formula. and would be absurd

  41. An action is morally good because God commands it and God commands it because it’s morally good

    Moral from the Latin moralitas “manner, character, proper behavior”. Morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong; morals are created and define by society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.

    In my point of view, we cannot answer it by yes or no, because talking about morality; no more authoritative than God, nor society nor philosophy, nor religion. Were talking about choosing code of conducts either from God or from Evil. So as a Christian I believe all commandments of God are morally good. Therefore, there is no contradiction and both statements are correct.

  42. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morality is the conformity to the ideals of right human conduct. It comes from the root word moral, which means ethical, virtuous, righteous or noble. Can these things exist even without God?

    God is the only authority who knows best. He is omniscient and omnipotent. He is the alpha and omega. King of all kings. Lord of all lords. The greatest above all. There can’t be morality without Him, because God, through His Word, sets the standard for morality.

    I won’t agree with “God commands it because it is morally good.” Let’s say for instance, one religion would say that abortion is right. Then abortion would be a moral thing. Even though abortion is killing, it would be ethical only because the gods love it? I totally disagree with this, if their basis is only humans or religion as the authority because men are not the givers of standards for morality it is God and God alone.

    How would someone know ethical things without an authority? There must be someone who knows what is right. Ang again it is God. Morality was already established by God, it was set a long time ago. Authorities, humans and religion only supports it.

  43. “Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Every individual is created with its own intellectual and will to decide whether an action is right or wrong. Morality is a moral conduct or virtue that is conformity to a standard of right.

    Humans have different qualities that they need to share to other people to live in a moral life. Morality that we know because of God. Assuming that God not exists, then there’s no one who will guide, teach, and light our way everyday. All of us rooted in him.

    If God tell you to kill, it doesn’t mean that you will kill somebody. You must only show that you really trust him because he will not do plans that will hurt other people. If there’s no God, we’re nothing and definitely there be no morality. A place without Him will be in a great disorder. And people treat Him as an ‘idol’, a leader to look up to so we can attain a moral way of life.

    I, as a Christian, I beleive that what God commands if followed is a way of being a moral individual. He is the only person who knows what is right and the commandments of God will always be moral.

  44. An action is morally good because the god commands it.

    Morality is an act of doing something which does not against human rights and God is a creator and ruler of the universe and also divine.

    An action is morally good because the God commands it because we truly follows god’s command in which we know it is morally good not just because we follow him but God is so perfect and divine who lead us to do something morally good. And something you do is morally good when you treat someone in a right way or as a person because we feel and know the presence of God every time we think and what we are doing.

    The saying “The God commands it because it is morally good.”

    I do not agree with these statements because this states that something will be considered a command of God if it is morally good for us. Not all things that are morally good to us can be considered as a command of God because sometimes making a sin is ignorance for us in order to be benefited or for the sake of ourselves intentionally.

  45. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”]

    Morality speaks of a system of behavior in regards to standards of right or wrong behavior. The word carries the concepts of: moral standards, with regard to behavior; moral responsibility, referring to our conscience; and a moral identity, or one who is capable of right or wrong action. Common synonyms include ethics, principles, virtue, and goodness. Morality has become a complicated issue in the multi-cultural world we live in today. Let’s explore what morality is, how it affects our behavior, our conscience, our society, and our ultimate destiny.

    Depending on a situation, God means having the power to do what is right. God knows when to leave or actually, God doesn’t leave us. He makes things moral to let us know that being moral has the capabilities of having a smart and wise decisions. When God made the world, God made it perfectly. He chooses things to be fitted ion their situation.

    God made the things moral to show us the value of morality. As a command of God, all things are created by him. So all things are made for perfection. He created this for us because God loves us. Therefore, i can conclude that there are things that are moral because god loves it.

  46. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    I think that God commands it because it is morally good.

    First, what is morality? Morality concerns with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct. How morality is defined plays a crucial, although often unacknowledged, role in formulating ethical theories. To take “morality” to refer to an actually existing code of conduct is quite likely to lead to some form of relativism. Among those who use “morality” normally, different specifications of the conditions under which all rational persons would put forward a code of conduct result in different kinds of moral theories. To claim that “morality” in the normative sense does not have any referent, that is, to claim that there is no code of conduct that, under any plausible specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons, results in moral skepticism. Thus, although, not widely discussed, the definition of morality has great significance for moral theory.

    I think that God is the origin of morality. I think that God knows what are moral things and what are not and because of that he influenced us to let us know what things are moral and what things are not. God gave us intelligence far superior to other creatures, I think that this is because God wanted us to know what is good and what is evil. Before Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God told her that the fruit has an evil nature therefore she should not eat it, but because of her stubbornness God banished her and Adam from the garden of Eden. Sometimes we violate the teachings of God which is passed since the time of Moses, and now those teachings are inside us and known to us. Those teachings and commandments are given to us by God because he knew that those are moral. I think that God won’t teach us bad things because we are His creations and therefore He do not want us to do bad things and to suffer because of immoral acts.

    God loves us all, that is why the ten commandments and morality was given to us. Therefore I think and will always think that God commands it because it is morally good

  47. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    I believe that an action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong. Morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience. It is normative and universal sense and is synonymous with ethics.Morality speaks of a system of behavior in regards to standards of right or wrong behavior. The word carries the concepts of moral,moral responsibility, and a moral identity.Common synonyms include ethics,principles,virtue, and goodness. Morality has become a complicated issue in the multi-cultural world we live in today.

    God gave us all intellect and freewill for us to make and do a right decision for ourselves and to distinguish the right and wrong of every actions. He is in whole or part the definition of goodness itself. I also believe that God will never be wrong in making a different and systematic decision for his people about morality. He just happens to command what would be good in any case (“eutheism”), but allowing for a hypothetical scenario where he also decides to become malevolent (“dystheism”).

  48. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    I believe that an action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong. Morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience. It is normative and universal sense and is synonymous with ethics.Morality speaks of a system of behavior in regards to standards of right or wrong behavior. The word carries the concepts of moral,moral responsibility, and a moral identity.Common synonyms include ethics,principles,virtue, and goodness. Morality has become a complicated issue in the multi-cultural world we live in today.

    God gave us all intellect and freewill for us to make and do a right decision for ourselves and to distinguish the right and wrong of every actions. He is in whole or part the definition of goodness itself. I also believe that God will never be wrong in making a different and systematic decision for his people about morality. He just happens to command what would be good in any case (”eutheism”), but allowing for a hypothetical scenario where he also decides to become malevolent (”dystheism”).

  49. “It is moral because the God’s love it”

    Moral pertains to those intentions and actions of which right and wrong, virtue and vice, are predicated, or to the rules by which such intentions and actions ought to be directed; relating to the practice, manners, or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, as respects right and wrong.Something can be morally good because of the God’s love in it.God will not love it if it is evil,God is a supreme being that creates us and love us.God gives us problems for us to be challenged in our lives.If we do things that are morally good,God will be happy for us.Moral do not only pertains to good things,it can be wrong to in some ways.So it is moral because of God’s love in it.

  50. “It is moral because the God’s love it!”

    Morality means conformity to the rules of right, moral or virtuous.

    For me, Morality is created by a group of people that believes in only one rule. For example, a tribe finds offering of a child for good harvest, and to offer the child, he/she must be burned to be offered, for them, it is moral for they think, it will have an effect or blessing for their harvest, but if you are not a part of their tribe, you’ll think, what they are doing is immoral. But it’s alright if you believe that the God’s love it because it is moral. For sometimes, as a roman catholic, and once in tha bible, our God also tested Abraham and put morality into test, so sometimes, God do make moraliy.

  51. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”
    morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, morals are created by society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.for me God commands it because it is morally good.If a morally desirable course of action is the right thing to do, then it will be the right thing to do,irrespective of whether God orders it to be done.God is then ethically bound to command that course of action because its properties of moral goodness stand independently of God and this course of action is good,in itself.God orders that it be done because it is the morally proper thing to do.on the other hand,an action is morally good because God commands it,can also be true because God is the definition of goodness,so we can therefore conclude that God’s commandments are morally good but not all that is morally good is commanded by God

  52. Is something moral because God loves it, or God loves it because it is moral?

    An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, Right is refraim doing something good.

    We can tell what is right or wrong and what is good or evil. People created by god and we have right to think and to do we want. There could be never morality if there is no God. And how can we determin if there is right or wrong.

  53. Is something moral because God loves it, or God loves it because it is moral?

    An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, Right is refraim doing something good.

    We can tell what is right or wrong and what is good or evil. People created by god and we have right to think and to do we want. There could be never morality if there is no God. And how can we determin if there is right or wrong.

    I dont believe that God loves it because it is morally

  54. An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morality refers to ethical issues — principles of right and wrong conduct — as well as instances of real behaviour — the manner in which individuals comply more or less fully with such standards. Based on the Latin mor — ‘a manner, custom’ — this term covers all kinds of human actions.

    Without God, a person can perform no good acts: All good acts are attributed to God but all bad acts are due to our rejection of God. However this is an inconsistency and is devoid of meaning when we think about the nature of a “good act”. God wills us to do good acts. This must mean one of these two things,1.)If God wills it, then it is good.2.)Good acts are not defined by God.Obviously if God is the basis of Good acts then we must select the first option, because the second would imply the existence of another Creator, a Creator of Absolute Morals and Good acts which would contradict the single-Creator clause of monotheism:*God wills us to do what is good.*If God wills it, then it is good.A being with no free will cannot be morally good as it makes no moral choices; it can only be morally neutral like a robot.

    You cannot be moral without making choices…

  55. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,
    or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    Morality is independent of God & God is bound by morality just as his creatures are. The ability to differentiate between right & wrong, of what’s good & what’s bad is a matter of reason & hot sentiment. God is little more than a passer on of moral knowledge. Morality is not arbitrary or based merely on God’s whims. While the teachings of the Gods of differing cultures/religions might vary (as exemplified by Socrates to Euthyphro – using the clashes among the Greek Gods), Moral law is categorical & imperative as it is bound by human reason (the ability to differentite between good & bad).

  56. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    An action is morally good because God’s commands it.

    And Morality is the quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct or a system of ideas that fall into those same categories.

    It is said to be moral if based upon God’s teachings. Whatever beautiful to the eyes of God when done makes a person morally upright. This entails knowing the right and the wrong.

  57. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    An action is morally good because God’s commands it.

    And Morality is the quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct or a system of ideas that fall into those same categories.

    It is said to be moral if based upon God’s teachings. Whatever beautiful to the eyes of God when done makes a person morally upright. This entails knowing the right and the wrong.

  58. Why are you doing this? I am quite certain that I know you. Please, don’t use this site for stuff like this. You talk when you cease to be at peace with your own thoughts. Everyone can read this so I beg you. Quit playing games. I prefer people who have the truth within them, but they tell it not in words.Otherwise, you’re just playing around.

  59. “If you were Euthyphro, how would you have responded when Socrates requires: “Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it’s morally good”?

    An action is morally good because God commands it. Morals are principles for what is right and wrong. An action is a mean that can be either good or evil. It is good if it is more pleasant, pleasurable and less pain, and evil if it is more pain and less pleasurable. An action is right when you treat human being the right way, treat as “persons” not as “things”.

    On the first line, “An action is morally good because God commands it”, the word morality is dependent on the approvals of God. It says that with God there is morality. While in the second line, “God commands it because it’s morally good”, the goodness of morality is independent on the approvals of God. It says that there can be morality without God. An action is morally good because God commands it. All kinds of life are in process of deciding between life and death, choosing what to do with power and authority. This ultimately leads to a system of virtues and values that are endowed to us by God.

    An action is morally good because God commands it. An action is right when you treat human being the right way as a “person” who has an intrinsic worth, end in itself, as a rational being, has the capacity to set own ends and one who is FREE. No actions are morally non good because God commands it. Nothing are non good actions is morally because God commands it. All non good actions are immoral if God commands it. Therefore the ultimate end or goal of morality is the goodness or badness of human acts determined by the fact whether it contributes or construct the realization of the final goal of human history.

  60. “Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it’s morally good”?

    An action is morally good because God commands it.An action can be good or evil it depends upon the mean of it. It is good if it is more pleasant and evil if it is more pain. If you treat people a right way i think they will treat you in a nice way also. It depends also in the goal of a human in this kind of world. We are not perfect so can also commit mistakes or what we call sins or evil. But sometimes it can be also a lesson to us to be a kind of person that can realize about are reality today so that they can face their own goal. We are humans and being a human there is a fact that a no one can change of it and that is to achieve their goals with or without evil.

  61. “Is an action morally good because God commands it,or does God command it because it is morally good?”

    An action is morally good because God commands it.

    Morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience. An action can be good or evil. It depends on how people define or think about it. Some people may think it’s good but in your own perspective it’s not and vice versa.

    We identify that God is the source of moral standards. We often expressed it by saying that doing the right thing means obeying God’s commands, while doing the wrong thing means disobeying God. Alternatively, it is said that one’s duty is to obey God.

    Religion is neither necessary nor useful in providing moral motivation or guidance. The objections to the claim that without God there would be no morality are somewhat more complex. First, it is wrong to say that only if God’s will is at its base can morality be objective. The idea of the best moral code – the one fully rational person would support – may prove to provide sound means to evaluate one’s own code as well as those of other societies.

  62. Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?

    An action is morally good because God commands it.

    I believe that all acts that are willed by God are good and have bigger purpose than humans are willing to believe. And that God is good in everything he commands and wills a person to do.

    I believe that what makes an action right is that God desires it to be done. This statement is the idea that moral actions are those which correspond to God’s will. It states that the phrase morally right actually means commanded by God. Similarly, morally wrong means forbidden by God. A slightly more explanation would be that something is right if and only if God commands it, means that it is good.

    The idea that it is good because God commands it leads to the idea that God’s commands are arbitrary. God cannot appeal to the goodness of an act as justification for commanding it, because it is the very command that makes it good. Before God’s command, the act was neither good nor bad.

  63. HI GUYS! =D

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